To Elaborate On PUA’s

Over the last few days, I’ve thrown a lot of acronyms at you, most with little explanation. As I’ve mentioned before, this is why a person with a lot of experience in a subject isn’t always the best teacher: they forget what it’s like to not know the basics. On many of the feminist sites I frequent, the terms MRA, PUA and MGTOW are thrown around casually, because everyone knows.

This post that I reblogged from Dave Futrelle over at We Hunted The Mammoth explains MRA’s pretty well, complete with links to some representative statements by important leaders of the movement.

(If you’re wondering just what the heck mammoths have to do with anything, it’s a reference to a long-forgotten commenter who claimed that women – women living today, mind you – owed men – men living today, mind you – their very lives, because “we hunted the mammoth to feed you”. The ignorance is almost as appalling as the misogyny. Here’s a hint: hunter-gatherer tribes that exist today do not depend on big, occasional meat catches for their nutrition. Any that did in prehistory don’t have any descendants living today.)

MGTOW’s, as I explained in this post are actually quite simple: they think women are horrible, and that men should “go their own way” and forsake the company of women forever. In their case, that probably would indeed be best for everyone. Unfortunately, they never seem to get around to actually leaving and take up a hobby or something, as you’d imagine someone would do if they actually went their own way. Instead, they spend all their time online, kvetching about how awful women are and how, someday soon, all men will go their own way, and won’t women be sorry then!

In the same post, I mention that “PUA’s” are “Pick Up Artists”, and that that is much nastier than it sounds. That’s probably where I need to explain a bit.

When I use the term “Pick Up Artists”, you probably imagine some suave, handsome fellow charming his way into a new pair of knickers every Friday and Saturday night. If the “Pick Up Artist” community was about how to become that guy – more attractive, interesting, confident, etc. – it wouldn’t be a problem.

Instead, you have a bunch of guys who think they’ve found the cheat codes that are guaranteed to get a man as much sex as he wants, a strategy they refer to as “Game”.

(Because of course, all women are identical. No, really. One of their few good pieces of advice – give up and move on if someone just isn’t into you – is delivered in a wrapping of hideous misogyny: “Just get another woman, they’re all the same.”)

“Game” is a fundamentally adversarial process that treats women as obstacles that must be overcome so a man can get the sex that is his real goal. Sex is the only reason to interact with women at all, and while a certain amount of putting up with their chatter is to be expected, spending too long on it is a waste of time, and worse, risks entry into the dreaded Friendzone. Abandon all hope of sex, ye who enter there.

(Where women who find a fella attractive and want to fuck him, or men who find common interests with women and want to be friends fit into this philosophy, I’m not sure.)

Anyway, Game involves a lot of psychological manipulation techniques designed to push women’s limits and single out the ones who can be pushed. The most notorious of these is the infamous “negging”:

This is how it should work.

This is how it should work.

The other important part of “Game” is not taking “no” for an answer. Game Gurus warn you not to fall for women’s “Shit Tests” – i.e., things women do to weed out and dissuade men they feel are unworthy.

Which is…not something I’d ever even heard of before I heard of PUA’s. I suppose it’s possible that every woman I’ve ever known, including the ones who have a vested interest in helping me reproduce, have kept it secret, but that’s a heck of a conspiracy. Alternatively, it’s the kind of theory a man or group of men might come up with if they spent all of their time speculating about women’s behavior instead of asking.

The real problem is, a lot of common “shit tests” would be interpreted by most non-PUA’s as simple “signs of disinterest or discomfort”.

As another part of not taking no for an answer, Game tells you about how to overcome “Last Minute Resistance”. That is to say, if a woman changes her mind about having sex with you at the last minute, here are some tips for overcoming it. You should not leave the apartment without dipping your wick, or at least getting as far, sexually, as you can possibly push it.

I’m just going to leave that out there.

For more information on PUA’s, check out these posts at We Hunted The Mammoth.

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16 Comments

Filed under Feminism, Links, Politics

16 responses to “To Elaborate On PUA’s

  1. Mann Fuga

    “M.G.T.O.W – Men Going Their Own Way – is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: “No”. Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a “man” is. Looking to no one else for social cues. Refusing to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility. And, living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn’t.”

    • …so you don’t actually disagree with anything I said, you just believe that it’s a good thing.

      • Mann Fuga

        I don’t agree with anything you said. I was simply giving you the definition of MGTOW. I don’t see how anyone could find fault with MGTOWs. The world of relationships between men and women has become toxic. That men are waking up and realizing this, in your mind, is misogynistic? Why? Cause any man that doesn’t cater to women on bended knee is apparently now a misogynist (a word that has lost all meaning)? If you’re going to talk about a philosophy, try to get it right.

        And yes – I believe MGTOW is a very good thing. Given today’s relationship world, how is MGTOW not good? The same is happening in Japan, S. Korea and all over the globe. You see – not catering to women isn’t misogyny. Not wanting to be around women isn’t misogyny. Going your own way because you don’t like the all too common entitled, narcissistic, misandric attitude of many women is called wisdom – not misogyny.

        • What is it with trolls showing up days or even weeks after a conversation is over and trying to get the last word in? Is there a strategy guide somewhere?

          And no one would have a problem with MGTOW’s, if you’d ever actually do it. But you never do. You just hang out online talking about how terrible women are.

          Going your own way because you don’t like the all too common entitled, narcissistic, misandric attitude of many women is called wisdom – not misogyny.

          Because you made sure to include the word “many”, right? Is that the difference? It’s not misogyny unless you hate all women?

          Edited to add: I love it when bigots realize that being identified with the name of their particular bigotry is a bad thing, but refuse to actually change their beliefs, so instead they try to redefine the name of their particular bigotry until it doesn’t apply to them. Here’s a clue: you’re just like the racists who insist they have no problem with black people, just n*ggers.

  2. MGTOW don’t hate women. MGTOW have identified that the institution of marriage and other forms of relationships with women are toxic. It’s not the women that are toxic, but the institutions and legalities surrounding relationships that are toxic.

    Women are people and range from worse than bog water to truly wonderful. Women are people and far to diverse to label “good” or “bad” as a group. The laws customs and culture surrounding relationships are the problem.

    • Hi, GNL. You should know ahead of time that I’m a regular at We Hunted The Mammoth, so I’m familiar with your schtick.

      For any lurkers who may be unfamiliar:

      MGTOW don’t hate women.

      This is a lie. A huge, blatant, shameless lie. Go here and judge for yourself how MGTOW’s feel about women. Kinda changes the rest of what GNL says, doesn’t it? This? All this reasonable-sounding and generally true stuff?

      It’s not the women that are toxic, but the institutions and legalities surrounding relationships that are toxic.

      Women are people and range from worse than bog water to truly wonderful. Women are people and far to diverse to label “good” or “bad” as a group. The laws customs and culture surrounding relationships are the problem.

      …just a spoonful of sugar to help the poison go down.

      • Yes, because a blog dedicated to trying to shame men into continued silence about issues that affect us is by far the best source for information on issues that affect men.

        Do you go to the Westburo Baptist Churches Website for information on homosexuality?

        • Point 1: Dave includes links to the source material. Anyone who follows that link can judge the truth for themselves.

          Point 2: Spewing endless hate at women for problems that are, on the whole, caused by the men in power, isn’t helping anyone. Especially since PUA’s, MRA’s and MGTOW’s do essentially nothing else.

          Point 3: This is the second lie in as many posts that you’ve told on my blog, GNL. Since this one was slandering Dave, I don’t think I’ll give you a third strike. You’re out of here.

  3. I’m not sure what others’ relationships are like, but for myself I’ve always had very fulfilling relationships with women. I really like being married to my wife. I liked being engaged to her before that and being in a serious dating relationship before that. If a relationship is toxic, I’d assume it had something to do with the people in the relationship rather than the institution of relationships itself. That’s just basic troubleshooting. For example, if I can’t connect to the internet on my computer, but my wife can on hers, it logically follows that the problem lies with my computer and not with the wifi network. One bad relationship, or even many, doesn’t mean the very idea of such relationships is broken. The fact is, some relationships don’t work and some do. Swearing off relationships entirely is a poor solution to the problem of bad ones though.

    As far as a man “living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn’t,” well of course. We live in a society, and sometimes it is important to put others’ interests ahead of our own for the benefit of the group. This does not mean we can’t take care of ourselves, or that we can’t act in our own interests. But part of being an adult human is recognizing that I am not the only person in the world who matters, especially in cases where acting in my interests would do harm to someone else. There are of course philosophies that can argue fairly successfully against this, but even then most people choose to live as part of a greater social group. And in most cases, that is beneficial, for individuals as well as the group.

    In conclusion, it’s fine to “go your own way.” Just don’t pull others along with you.

    • Hey, Chris.

      I need a “Like” button.

      Anyway, you’d be amazed how many code words and dog whistles Mann fit into that short paragraph. It’s hard to explain without doing a whole other post, but the essence of it is that they believe modern marriage has become a fundamentally anti-male institution, designed to take a man for everything that he’s worth (including his children) and give it all to women who sit on their ass all day eating bonbons.

      So while your advice is good for most people, it just isn’t going to get through the walls of unreality here.

      • No, I don’t think it will, get through the walls of unreality that is. That’s an issue for a whole post or two or three, but to that point I’ll say this: I struggle sometimes, and I did with my previous comment, with the thought that whatever I say won’t make a difference to men who believe they have been wronged for whatever silly reason. I think, “Maybe I just shouldn’t say anything. It won’t do any good.” But then I think about how much garbage you can find online, and about the people who come to an article like this and read the comments. I think, “What if they come here and only see one side of the issue represented?” And then I decide that even if my voice doesn’t change minds, it’s important to let it out anyway. If I don’t, that might not be agreeing with what I see as wrong and misguided, but it’s not doing anything to solve the problem either.

        As to the first part of your reply, I unfortunately understand that point of view all too well. I’ve never had opinions as extreme as those you describe, but growing up in a very conservative, patriarchal small town I heard my fair share of bullshit like, “Young, white men are the most discriminated against group in our country right now.” At the time, being young and ignorant, I bought into a lot of the bullshit. Like you mentioned in an earlier post though, I was lucky to have a very different reality shoved in my face that broke through with some good ole’ fashioned cognitive dissonance.

        The real problem here is that men’s rights ideology does have some small truth to it. White men are discriminated against (if you can even call it discrimination) in certain instances. Marriage as a societal institution has its fair share of problems. Some women are horrible shrews. Etc. etc. and so on and so forth. What most if not all men’s rights proponents fail to realize is that these legitimate issues are small potatoes compared to the abject horror of many realities women and minority groups face every day. It sucks if I maybe get passed over for a job because a qualified black lady applied to it too. It sucks way worse to be a qualified black lady who knows perhaps the main reason she got the job was because of her race or gender, not to mention all the other bullshit assumptions that come along with that thing. I’m starting to ramble a bit, which I do because I’m never sure if I’m adequately getting my point across. I could never say it better than Louis CK though, so here he is to take it away: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

    • In conclusion, it’s fine to “go your own way.” Just don’t pull others along with you.

      THIS! I live life pretty much as a MGTOW–i.e keep to myself and avoid marriage–but what annoys me about those guys is how evangelical they are. They’ve tried to recruit me and my friends into their “club” before and didn’t take it too well when we told them we didn’t need an acronym or a support group to be happy bachelors. It’s rather annoying, and it makes ignoring them lamentably harder.

      • Mann Fuga

        And feminists aren’t evangelical? Why can’t feminists just go away? Your hypocrisy is stunning. Read what you wrote again. You can’t see it, can you (rhetorical). MGTOW aren’t going to go away – no matter how much you’d like to see otherwise.

        • I’ll not start a fight on someone else’s blog, especially not on account of a drive-by comment I made which you seem to feel compelled to reply to after over a week (one would expect an Independent Man Going His Own Way would have something better to do). I’ll simply reply to this:

          And feminists aren’t evangelical?

          In my experience, no, actually. I haven’t been hassled by a feminist in literally years. MGTOWs, on the other hand, have a habit of making weird, pointless threads on some of the image boards I frequent. It’s not particularly serious, but it can get mildly annoying.

          I suppose it’s possible feminists will give me more trouble in the future. In that case, rest assured I’ll tell them to go away, leave me alone, and quit fishing for recruits. The exact same thing I might tell you–funny, that.

          • Mann Fuga

            Feminists aren’t evangelical? That’s a good one. Believe what you want to believe. Sorry for invading “your space”. Far be it from me to exercise my own free speech on the sites you frequent. How dare I.

          • Apology accepted. *shakes your hand*

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